Alcoholism & Alcoholics Anonymous: Willpower or Disease?
I realize that my discussion of alcoholism, Alcoholics Anonymous groups and personal responsibility may offend some people. All I ask is that you read it with an open mind and consider the ideas presented and the science behind them. If you have a problem with alcoholism, you need to get treatment and take control of your life- just do it the right way.
Alcoholism is a confusing condition, even for those who are intimately familiar with it or perhaps even suffer from it. Organizations such as Alcoholics Anonymous claim that alcoholism is a disease and that humans are powerless to deal with it without the assistance of supernatural forces. The generally accepted definition for alcoholism is “people who continue to consume alcoholic beverages even when it negatively affects their health and the health of those around them.” My life has been affected by alcoholism; my mother was an alcoholic and drug addict, though she has been successfully clean and sober for several years. She has said that being free of drugs and alcohol is due to the supernatural assistance of God and God’s earthly messengers (Alcoholics Anonymous). I know many other people who consume alcohol with and without problems and I myself consume alcohol. Based on my observation, experiences and review of scientific studies, I have come to the conclusion that:
Alcoholism is almost NEVER a disease, but is caused by a lack of self control and will power. Alcoholics Anonymous success rate shows it is not as effective a form of treatment as others available.
I know that that is a big statement and a lot of readers probably are angry, but I simply ask you to listen to what I have to say to back up such a strong claim.
My first statement, that alcoholism is almost never a disease but demonstrates a lack of discipline is probably the most controversial idea. The founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, Bill Wilson, even stated that alcoholism is more comparable to a malady than a disease. Wilson and Alcoholics Anonymous used the idea that alcoholism is a disease to fight the commonly held belief that obsessive consumption of alcohol can be cessated by willpower alone. Success combating alcohol, according to Alcoholics Anonymous, can only be achieved through absolute abstinence from booze through the power of God. So what makes me say alcoholism is not a disease?
Alcoholism is not a disease. Cancer, HIV, herpes, smallpox and Alzeimers are diseases. Going to a bar and ordering a martini is not a disease. A person must make a conscious decision to go buy alcohol and then lift that glass or bottle of alcohol to their lips and drink. Nor does that fact that it can become habitual make it a disease. The fact that I make picking my nose a habit does not make nose picking a disease. Even the fact that alcohol is a drug and can be physically addicting does not make it a disease. Unless there is a universally recognized mental health condition causing the person to be unable to control their consumption of alcohol (mental retardation, obsessive compulsive disorder, etc.), that person can apply their willpower, discipline and self control to simply not drink to excess or not drink at all.
People that I have met who claim to “alcoholics” suffering from “alcoholism” all suffer from a distinct lack of will power in other areas of their lives. Usually alcoholism is not their root problem; their lack of self control is. Learning to discipline oneself is the hardest thing for any human to do, but it is a big part of what makes us human. To blow off your social responsibility and make conscious decisions to do wrong and claim that those decisions are a disease is cowardice. I am a flawed person, but when I consciously make a decision to do wrong, I will take responsibility for it. People who claim to be alcoholics unable to control themselves are the same people who don’t take responsibility when they hurt people.
Since people who refuse to take responsibility for their drinking blame it on a disease, what do these “alcoholics” claim is the cure? Something else that can’t be measured and is off limits to criticism in society- RELIGION. “Alcoholics” have banded together to form a religious cult so they don’t have to take responsibility for their actions. This cult is called Alcoholics Anonymous. Although, perhaps cult is the wrong word for a group over two million people strong… I think it has reached the hallowed status of socially accepted Religion.
Alcoholics Anonymous: Cult of Cowardice
Ok, ok, I am exaggerating when I call Alcoholics Anonymous a cult. Alcoholics Anonymous is a national organization of informal groups that try to get alcoholics to abstain from alcohol consumption. Alcoholics Anonymous bases it’s philosophy on 12 steps rooted in religion. Alcoholics Anonymous twelve steps are listed below:
- We admitted we were powerless over alcohol–that our lives had become unmanageable. Surrendering responsibility for ones own actions is a fundamental act of cowardice.
- Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. Claiming that religion can save us from something they don’t want to take responsibility for.
- Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
- Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. Except for the most basic moral check: Recognizing ones owns action and taking ownership of them.
- Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
- Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
- Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings. By asking God to get rid of your problems, you are saying that it is not your fault… and if you fail again, you couldn’t help it. God just didn’t help out enough.
- Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. Finally some responsibility taken.
- Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
- Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
- Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
- Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs. SPREAD THE FAITH!!! Just like every other religion, this one holds a clause to propagate it’s own numbers.
As you can see above, Alcoholics Anonymous groups purposely shunt responsibility for their drinking away from themselves and on to a supernatural being. Once their accountability for what they have done is gone, “alcoholics” can feel better about themselves and what they have done. After all, getting drunk or high and hurting people isn’t my responsibility… My DISEASE made me do it! Right? The obvious flaws in such thinking lead to further harm to the person and society since they still have not taken personal responsibility for their consumption of alcohol.
Below is a video discussing the Alcoholics Anonymous groups and their fundamental problems.
To be fair, here is a video advertisement for Alcoholics Anonymous groups below:
What are some other problems with the success of Alcoholics Anonymous groups?
An internal report done by Alcoholics Anonymous itself in 1989 discovered that of “alcoholics” who attended Alcoholics Anonymous groups for the first time, only 19% stayed for one month and a shockingly low 5% stayed after 12 months. That means that 95% of people who have problems with their alcohol consumption, did not bother sticking with Alcoholics Anonymous groups.
Alcoholics Anonymous groups also have a very significant issue with abuse among their ranks. Alcoholics Anonymous works by pairing a newly joined “alcoholic” with a sober veteran mentor. However, Alcoholics Anonymous uses no criminal screening, restrictions or vetting in determining who get paired with who. As a result, “Thirteenth-stepping” has become a major problem; it is the practice of targeting new Alcoholics Anonymous members for sex and dating. Based on surveys that have shown wide abuse of these relationships, chemical dependency treatment providers now recommend that vulnerable people with histories of sex abuse join single-gender only support groups.
Watch this video interview of Dr. Stanton Peele on the disease theory of alcoholism. He points out fundamental problems with the basic ideas forced down drunks throats by Alcoholics Anonymous groups.
Court Rulings on Alcoholics Anonymous Groups
in 1996, the United States Supreme Court ruled that inmates parolees and probationers cannot be forced to attend religious based programs such as Alcoholics Anonymous groups or others. Forcing prisoners to attend such programs is forcing those same prisoners into a religious cult. Thank God for the separation of Church and State.
Another very important court ruling has found that internal communications between members of Alcoholics Anonymous groups is NOT covered under client, patient or clergy privileges and AA members can be forced to testify against one another in court. Although Alcoholics Anonymous members promise not to share a confidence, the courts do not honor that promise.
Alcohol Calculator: How to tell your Blood Alcohol Content Level:
My criticism of Alcoholics Anonymous groups and their philosophy of not taking responsibility or using self control does not mean that I do not advocate safe and responsible use of alcohol.
When drinking, you should always follow these rules:
- NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, DRINK AND DRIVE.
- Do not drink more than you know you can handle.
- Always take full responsibility for your actions, drunk or sober.
- Do not mix alcoholic beverages and any other drugs, even caffeine. Doing so can be hazardous for your health.
- A person who is drunk CANNOT give consent to have sex. You can go to jail if you have sex with someone who is incapacitated because of alcohol intoxication.
Please use the two alcohol calculator charts below as a rule of thumb only. Alcohol affects different people in different ways and having any alcohol in your system when operating a car has the potential to be dangerous.
MALES ALCOHOL CHART
| APPROXIMATE BLOOD ALCOHOL PERCENTAGE | |||||||||
| Drinks * |
BODY WEIGHT IN POUNDS | EFFECT ON PERSON | |||||||
| 100 | 120 | 140 | 160 | 180 | 200 | 220 | 240 | ||
| 0 | .00 | .00 | .00 | .00 | .00 | .00 | .00 | .00 | ONLY SAFE DRIVING LIMIT |
| 1 | .04 | .03 | .03 | .02 | .02 | .02 | .02 | .02 | IMPAIRMENT BEGINS. |
| 2 | .08 | .06 | .05 | .05 | .04 | .04 | .03 | .03 | |
| 3 | .11 | .09 | .08 | .07 | .06 | .06 | .05 | .05 | DRIVING SKILLS SIGNIFICANTLY AFFECTED. |
| 4 | .15 | .12 | .11 | .09 | .08 | .08 | .07 | .06 | |
| 5 | .19 | .16 | .13 | .12 | .11 | .09 | .09 | .08 | LEGALLY INTOXICATED. CRIMINAL PENALTIES IN ALL STATES ** |
| 6 | .23 | .19 | .16 | .14 | .13 | .11 | .10 | .09 | |
| 7 | .26 | .22 | .19 | .16 | .15 | .13 | .12 | .11 | |
| 8 | .30 | .25 | .21 | .19 | .17 | .15 | .14 | .13 | |
| 9 | .34 | .28 | .24 | .21 | .19 | .17 | .15 | .14 | |
| 10 | .38 | .31 | .27 | .23 | .21 | .19 | .17 | .16 | |
Subtract .01% for each 40 minutes of drinking.
* One drink is equal to 1¼ oz. of 80-proof liquor, 12 oz. of beer, or 4 oz. of table wine.**ALL states have a .08 BAC per se law
The final one took effect in August of 2005.
FEMALES ALCOHOL CHART
| APPROXIMATE BLOOD ALCOHOL PERCENTAGE | ||||||||||
| Drinks * |
BODY WEIGHT IN POUNDS | EFFECT ON PERSON | ||||||||
| 90 | 100 | 120 | 140 | 160 | 180 | 200 | 220 | 240 | ||
| 0 | .00 | .00 | .00 | .00 | .00 | .00 | .00 | .00 | .00 | ONLY SAFE DRIVING LIMIT |
| 1 | .05 | .05 | .04 | .03 | .03 | .03 | .02 | .02 | .02 | IMPAIRMENT BEGINS. |
| 2 | .10 | .09 | .08 | .07 | .06 | .05 | .05 | .04 | .04 | DRIVING SKILLS SIGNIFICANTLY AFFECTED. |
| 3 | .15 | .14 | .11 | .11 | .09 | .08 | .07 | .06 | .06 | |
| 4 | .20 | .18 | .15 | .13 | .11 | .10 | .09 | .08 | .08 | LEGALLY INTOXICATED.CRIMINAL PENALTIES IN ALL STATES ** |
| 5 | .25 | .23 | .19 | .16 | .14 | .13 | .11 | .10 | .09 | |
| 6 | .30 | .27 | .23 | .19 | .17 | .15 | .14 | .12 | .11 | |
| 7 | .35 | .32 | .27 | .23 | .20 | .18 | .16 | .14 | .13 | |
| 8 | .40 | .36 | .30 | .26 | .23 | .20 | .18 | .17 | .15 | |
| 9 | .45 | .41 | .34 | .29 | .26 | .23 | .20 | .19 | .17 | |
| 10 | .51 | .45 | .38 | .32 | .28 | .25 | .23 | .21 | .19 | |
Subtract .01% for each 40 minutes of drinking.
* One drink is equal to 1¼ oz. of 80-proof liquor, 12 oz. of beer, or 4 oz. of table wine.
REMEMBER: Alcohol consumption affects different people in VASTLY different ways. One person could be fully functional after many drinks while another could be incapacitated by just one. BE CAREFUL when consuming alcohol!!!!
I Can Say Fuck On the Public Internets!...
Comedy Central Knuckles Under on South Park Muhammad Episode...
7 Complaints About the World...
South Park Creators Threatened by Muslims...
Need, Want, and Love...
National Debt Situation...
Emerging Adulthood...
Ban Privacy Now: Powerful New Organization...
Social Capital...
4 Random Google Adwords Tips...
Disguising Your Online Identity is Pointless...
How to Hire Great People...
Like my cheesy pic? :)
April 7th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
People have been shown to have genetic dispositions to be more likely to drink, and to form substance reliant habits. In such a regard, any type of habitual consumption or addictive substances can be thought of as a disease. It is something the individual has little control over and may not recognize until too late.
In alcoholic homes, people can also be trained to see substances as a means for relaxation, peace, calming, and happiness. This type of positive feedback essentially raises individuals who are substance dependent. This could be considered and classified as a mental illness.
I don’t know that I would just throw out the entire book on groups like AA, although I do believe that they are hugely unsuccessful (as we have personally witnessed). Support groups can be very helpful in breaking harmful habits or addictions or providing the necessary infrastructure to do so.
Now, that being said, I drink, although I am the child of an alcoholic, because I do not believe it is a disease that can be passed from generation to generation. I occasionally drink to relax, occasionally drink for social gatherings, and on even rarer occasions, just for fun. I, however, will NEVER drink if I feel like it is the only pick me up out there. Better to be temporarily depressed and wake up feeling better a day or two later, than to start forming a habit where some substance is the answer to my problems.
That’s a terrible disease to form.
April 17th, 2008 at 8:04 am
Alcoholics Anonymous: Cult of Cowardice – I love this even though I am a member of the cult – no anger felt – everyone has the right to share.
June 26th, 2008 at 8:42 am
You people make me giggle..
July 16th, 2008 at 5:43 am
Obviously the author is no an alcoholic and he hasn´t read the OMS Satatement -303 (1953)- about alcoholism. It must be gourgeous to be God.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:33 am
What is “OMS Satatement -303 (1953)”?
July 24th, 2008 at 7:16 am
I have personally struggled with alcohol and have come close to death on a few occasions. The freedom I found and have enjoyed for many years now from my personal struggle was to be fully responsible for myself and my actions, whether they occurred when I was drunk or sober. AA is saturated with erroneous principles which are exceedingly trancended by basic, universal truths. I personally found AA to be an obstruction from my ability to be responsible and therefore, free. I suppose people can view this as a disease if they so choose since somewhere along the line it has been claimed as such. For me personally, whether science or the medical industry reports it as a disease or not simply does not matter. In my eyes, there is nothing useful, positive, and healing for doing so, yet plenty of negative, disempowering and irresponsible consequences for calling it a disease. Therefore for me, in my eyes, it is not a disease.
Glad to see that it is being openly discussed. One thing I know for sure is that if one finds a sense of peace, comfort through AA then by all means go for it. However, until recently it has been aggressively and arrogantly claimed by people within the industry to be “the only way” and that is just pure non-sense. People who are so defensive about AA and somehow threatened by the idea that many people find solutions to their alcohol/drug struggles outside of AA, need to look more closely at the solitidy of their own “recovery”.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:14 pm
request permission to use http://www.blog.joelx.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04... image in a academic student class presentation
October 1st, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Sure… but I am not the rights holder for these images I think.
January 25th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
I’ve done both, sobriety without AA(for 8 plus years) and sobriety with AA (1 year), I’m still sober and I prefer AA’s way. If its a cult then so shall be it, I’m happier then I’ve ever been in my life. You are allowed your opinion but I’d be careful with it because you never know who you could be harming with it, some poor person might be considering AA and see’s this and well you get my point. God Bless You.
January 30th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
I am breaking tradition 10 by discussing this in a forum.
When the only opinion I represent is that of my own… I acknowledge the free will given by God over that of The censorship “suggested” by A.A.
As a member, I am completely comfortable with the statements here.
I have witnessed cult-like behaviors in some groups. I do not attend those groups. In any city, you may find a large amount of different groups with different formats. The group I attend does not “add rules”. Many of the suggestions made by “Program” people are nowhere to be found in the bigbook.
I date whom I wish. I dress how I will and I speak with the full understanding of the privileges afforded me by something greater than mankind.
For newcomers who read this:
A.A. has worked for me. I did have to refrain from certain groups and individuals who added more to the program than was intended.
And finally, Bill Wilson did die a drunk. That has no bearing on the program, nor does that mean he doesn’t deserve respect for making a human effort to aspire to a better way of life.
A true A.A. groups accept all religions without opinion or bias. I have met many faiths in A.A. & was first sponsored by an atheist. Strangely enough he was quite spiritual. There is a difference between spirituality & religion.
http://silkworth.net/aa/12traditions.html
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:35 pm
What you have to say about AA is a bunch of crap! Clearly you are not fully educated about all the good it has done for so many since it began. And if you have a better way of helping people that do have a hard time helping themselves then go for it.
Your opinions are stupid and worthless!!!!!!!!!!!
February 15th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Your opinions on alcoholism make for interesting reading. I am a recovered alcoholic, I attend AA meetings and I am a Psychologist.
Not everyone in AA believes in God. I know a good number of atheists in AA who are happy in their recovery.
I do agree with you that Alcoholism is not a disease, it is a pathology. It is my view that this pathology can only be corrected when the alcoholic DOES take responsibility for his or her actions, most notably by stopping drinking.
Therein lies the fundamental flaw in your argument – you have misunderstood Step 1. Step 1 asserts that the alcholic is powerless OVER ALCOHOL. The rest of the steps assert that the only way that the alcholic can stay sober is precisely by taking responsibility for ALL AREAS of his or her life.
You are not alone in mis-interpreting Step 1, indeed there are a lot of people in AA who mis-interpret Step 1 – they have stopped drinking but in all other areas of their lives they are completely out of control.
So, I invite you to return to Step 1, re-read it, seek a better understanding of it and then examine the rest of the steps, notably steps 4 through to 10 and then 12 and see that these urge the alcoholic to take responsibility.
Best Regards,
Mike.
March 21st, 2009 at 3:17 pm
I’m in my early twenties. I’m from Midwest and currently work in the north as a Physical Therapy tech for the military. My mom is a 13-year recovering alcoholic. I have been a part of AA on my own for the past year. Here are some of my thoughts:
The author of this article wrote: “The founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, Bill Wilson, even stated that alcoholism is more comparable to a MALADY than a disease.”
From thefreedictionary.com, first four synonyms for malady: “illness, sickness, unwellness
condition – an illness, disease, or other medical problem”
HM. Malady and disease sound very similar. Good try though!
This guy sounded like he went to a lot of work to prove AA is bad/erroneous/wrong or whatever else. Kinda reminds me of the guy who swears he’s over his ex but still spends so much energy hating her. Is he really over her? If he didn’t care anymore about her, he why spend all the energy on her? If the author here really believes AA is crap, why spend so much time and research on this? Personally I believe the author may have some underlying problems. But that’s not my business.
I’d like to know also, what did he do for society by putting this out there? I wonder if this article helped anyone. I think AA is up to 2 million in recovery. Since 1935. That means millions more FAMILIES, FRIENDS, little kids, husbands, wives, sons and daughters are less affected by alcoholism and have HAPPIER lives. Not perfect, but better…
I like this part too:
…”people who refuse to take responsibility for their drinking”
Steps 8-10 state:
step 8…”became willing to make AMENDS to them all.”
And then his smartass add: “Finally some responsibility taken.”
You contradicted yourself there hot shot by saying we refuse to take responsibility.
step 9….”Made direct amends”…
We own up to what we’ve done.
step 10…”Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.” Wow now that just sounds so irresponsible doesn’t it?
You know what this whole article is so full of mistakes…it’s just not worth it to keep typing about all of it. And I’d like to apologize for even going on and on like this. It hit a nerve and I wanted to write something. But like someone said before, I truly hope no one was considering trying AA and read this.
March 21st, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Sorry, after rereading my own comment, looks like I need some work!
Thanks for your comment Mike.
March 29th, 2009 at 12:19 am
I think somebody has a resentment…. Live and let live, brother. If you don’t like the fact that some people find their recovery in the rooms of AA, then don’t go to the rooms of AA. I am no shrink, but if you took the time to post such a large hate-post regarding AA & recovering alcoholics I would venture to say I would be glad to take you to a meeting, sounds like you could use one
April 7th, 2009 at 11:54 am
“The rest of the steps assert that the only way that the alcholic can stay sober is precisely by taking responsibility for ALL AREAS of his or her life.”
The rest of the steps flat-out state that the only way the alcoholic can do this is by forging a personal relationship with God and carrying this message to others.
This is the reason I left A.A. I realized pretty quickly that it had nothing to do with not drinking. It’s a religion, not a “how to guide” on quitting drinking. I’m not knocking it, just identifying it for what it is.
The only way the alcoholic can stay sober is to not drink alcohol. If forging a personal relationship with God helps you do so, more power to you. It is not, however, the only way to stop (and stay stopped). I’ve known plenty of God-fearing drunks and plenty of teetotaling atheists.
Again, the only “problem” I have with A.A. is the tendency of its proponents to treat it as something other than what it actually is.
April 8th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I don’t agree with everything written here, although I agree it is a choice. When we are in the throes of addiction, it makes the choice more difficult. I do agree, however, that AA is a cult religion. I’ve witnessed a great deal of harm that it has caused. I know from experience that you cannot have a rational discussion with those who have drank the AA kool-aid, any more than you can reason with a Scientologist – and in fine form, many AAs who posted here hit you some quality, ad hominem personal attacks. That is their MO.
Nicely written and well thought out post.
June 17th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Hey …………..interesting read – I am a 10 month happy sober AA member, after several attempts to stop AA seems to be a real source of hope for me.
My approach is you take what you need and develop a program that works for each particpant. I do not have a sponsor that I interact with, have not done any steos, but try to live them as I understand them, I am now sober happy and not fearful of my next pending screw up – all in all – it was my team in AA that helped me get what I needed – serenity, courage and a little widsom.
Be well JOHN
July 11th, 2009 at 10:09 am
when I started reading the article, I did initially well up with anger, but it has since subsided.
In the interest of providing some balance, for anyone who reads the article, which is indeed well written, I would like to clarify some issues/points.
Most notably that AA has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with religion. It deals purely with spirituality. Spirituality is at the heart of every religion, but religion is not at the heart of spirituality. The fact that the word God is mentioned does not mean that it pertains to any particular denomination or sect. In fact all AA literature goes to great lengths to explain that this God is a “higher power” of the members understanding – members are not forced to believe in anything other than a power greater than themselves. It would be a bit vain and even naiive to assume that we humans are the greatest power in the universe. For many people this higher power is AA (or the force/synergy at work in AA that means its total is greater than the sum of its individual parts).
There is a disctinct lack of evidence, even anecdotal, to back up any of the points that you make, which would rule the article little more than personal opinion, from someone apparently unqalified to have an opinion.
Also, your interpretation of the Steps is again purely personal opinion, and has very little, if any, basis in reality. To say that:
#1 We admitted we were powerless over alcohol–that our lives had become unmanageable. Surrendering responsibility for ones own actions is a fundamental act of cowardice.
this is your interpretation of the step, and indeed mis-interpretation of the step.
The step itself never says that the alcoholics actions are as a result of his drinking. The step says that the alcoholic is powerless over alcohol. Now whether or not you agree with the classification of Alcoholism as a disease or not, it would be wrong to argue that either an alcoholic, or someone who is not alcoholic has power over alcohol. Neither one can control the effect that alcohol has on the body. To assume that alcohol invokes the exact same chemical reaction within everyone would again be, not only presumptuous, but Naiive. Similar to making the assumption that dairy products would invoke the same chemical reaction in someone who is lactose intolerant.
The fact that an alcoholics life has become unmanageable, is in no way blamed on alcohol. It is a mere statement of fact. It is this fact, indeed that leads the alcoholic to do something about their drinking.
Just to ask a few questions.
- Are you familiar with the difference between spirituality and religion?
- Your understanding of God [that I presume you don't believe in], does that come solely from the religions that you disagree with?
- Have you tried reading any spiritual literature to try and get your own understanding of God/Being/Higher Power, rather than just disagree with what you think other peoples idea of God is?
- Do you think that the universe came out of nothing, that it is going back to nothing, and that existence in itself is poinless?
- Do you believe that the human mind is truly strong enough to understand the workings of the universe (the entire thing not just the parts we are aware of), bearing in mind that we don’t even know everything about the planet we are on?
- Do you believe that the human mind is capable of understanding what God is?
July 24th, 2009 at 12:39 am
I had been drinking for twenty years and was told by all concerned that I was an alcoholic and would have to attend AA and various other programs to sort myself out, nothing ever worked until I went to see a psychologist who explained to me my problem was not with alcohol but was with multiple mental health problems, I simply used alcohol to deal with it all.
I used alcohol to deal with…
· Stress
· Anxiety
· Depression
· Hyperactivity
And many other mental health problems, it was simply the quick fix.
I am now learning the tools to deal with all my problems without alcohol and I am glad I found someone who did not label be as an alcoholic or a drunk.
August 1st, 2009 at 8:29 am
“The generally accepted definition for alcoholism is “people who continue to
consume alcoholic beverages even when it negatively affects their health and the
health of those around them.â€
I Couldn’t get much farther than that.
If your going to write a paper like this and call it science, try better grammar. And putting a photo of guys brain that you found somewhere on the internet is not science.
Here is a better definition of alcoholism from the NIAAA:
Alcoholism, also known as alcohol dependence, is a disease that includes the following four symptoms:
* Craving–A strong need, or urge, to drink.
* Loss of control–Not being able to stop drinking once drinking has begun.
* Physical dependence–Withdrawal symptoms, such as nausea, sweating, shakiness, and anxiety
after stopping drinking.
* Tolerance–The need to drink greater amounts of alcohol to get “high.”
Try telling someone with the shakes that they just need a little willpower.
August 1st, 2009 at 8:41 am
Avery…Dude, just the carry message. Your not breaking any tradition buy speaking in a forum about your personal experience or opinions. NOT EVEN CLOSE.. You make AA sound so darn organized and ridiclous …. ohhhh….ahhee…..aehhh.. I’m breaking tradition 10 by speaking here. But I’m a rebel! WHATEVER. Just don’t say anyone else name or shit. Unbelievable.
August 12th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Ah yes, the steppers are here tearing apart your very honest and factual essay. But do not worry, for they know not what they say. Most of their blabber was something heard before, and has been regurgitated time and time again. Thinking that AA is a cult and not believing in the disease theory is nothing new. If you think it is then you should check this article out: http://www.eskimo.com/~burked/history/harpers.html
Now, please let me give a little sample of what I found to be true in AA:
After spending over 16 years in and out of AA (steppers, I know what you’re thinking, so please don’t tell me I should of just stayed,;)) and trying to find logic and reason in the disease and powerlessness theory, I finally had enough courage together to leave the program for good. And thank God (if there is one) that I left. And when I finally did leave, let me tell you, what I thought was going to happen, happened. All my ‘’so called” friends stopped talking to me. They acted like I never even existed. These people were people I knew for many years, but just because I stopped believing in something that wasn’t working for me, they wrote me off. And I promise anyone here who is involved in AA, if you ever get to a point where you don’t feel the same about the program that you once did, and you leave, you will be lucky to come out with 1 acquaintance. I promise you that! So, this is my major beef with AA: When you first come to AA you are love bombed. It is hard to handle in the beginning, because most people are not use to this type of behavior. (And to top it off, a new person is going to be at a very vulnerable point in his/her life, because as we know, no one coming to AA is coming for good reasons.) The love bombing you receive feels good. You really start to think that these people care about your well being. And then it gets deeper than that. You start to share intimate details and secrets with these people, thinking that they’re your best friends. You start to tell them the deepest darkest secrets of your past. You end up trusting these people with your life. But, it is all just based on the beliefs that you hold about the program. And what I mean is, you are only accepted by the program based on your acceptance of the program. Once you start to question or challenge any bit of the program you are looked at like a sick person, and the amount of shunning you receive is based on the amount of questions that you ask. If you continue to challenge and question, the shunning will be more severe. If you stop questioning and admit the fault of your “stinking thinking”, then you will be accepted back. And this is the damaging part of the program. If you are still blind as to how this could hurt someone, let me explain a little more.
Anything that tries to hold you in it’s grips forever is not a healthy thing. And, as we all know, this is exactly what AA tries to do. People are told in the program that if they ever leave they will end up in ” jails, institutions, or death.” How is this healthy? Isn’t it healthy to motivate someone to move on after becoming well? Isn’t it healthy to grow and discover new things in this world that benefit us? How does spending the rest of your life surrounded by people that think the exact same way as you beneficial? Shouldn’t people be encouraged to be free from fear? Isn’t that all a part of growth? So, my next question would be, how is having 35 years in AA healthy? If anything, it seems the total opposite. The man who responded to your essay who claims to be a psychologist should know this. It’s called ”growth”, my friend.
Ok peeps, let me just break down something else for you. There is almost 7,000,000,000 people in this world. In the U.S. alone, we have in excess of 2,100 different religions. There is possibly (and this may even be high) 3,000,000 in AA. Most of these people are court ordered and members that will leave in their first days. So in all honesty, you could probably cut that 3,000,000 by more than half. Now, with these numbers laid out in black and white, could you answer me one question? Is it possible that AA has the one and only answer? Ask yourself that question out loud while you look at the numbers on the screen, if you like. All I ask is that you invite a little bit of logic and reason into your answer. Trust me, it’s not going to hurt you!
To sum it up: People quit drinking when they want. People stop acting like assholes when they want. Some people never quit drinking, and some people never stop acting like assholes. But, if you did stop drinking or you did stop acting like an asshole, then give yourself a little credit! And try not to think that some asshole in the sky made you stop because you’re special. Remember, there are people dying from hunger in the world, and kids that can’t go to school because war is in their back yard. There are elderly people dying alone, and scared, every minute. So knowing this, do you really think God is keeping you sober? Do you really believe that you are more important than all the other suffering people in the world. I don’t think you are, and I rest assured that if God does work in our lives, he/she would be helping out the people that are suffering as a result of nothing they’ve done, and not the people that are suffering by their own hands.
MeMay Dontwasteaway@gmail.com
August 12th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
MeMay,
I couldn’t agree with you more! Thanks for your great comment!
Joel
August 25th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
I think A.A. was a credible group that had good intentions to help the individual that suffered from alcoholism. Now A.A. is concerned about it self as a group and uses underhanded tactics to keep people chained mentaly, moraly and spiritualy. When people come into A.A. they are down due to the nature of their problem. A.A. immediatley jumps down their throat with the 90 meetings in 90 days. That is complete brainwashing! 90/90 was not an orginal saying or philosophy in the begining days of A.A. There wern’t even 90 meetings in the whole country. Treatment Centers have used and abused A.A. and thier clients by charging large amounts for treatment that is nothing more than A.A. wraped in another package Everyone passes the blame and no one is responsible for thier own choices or actions. You have to have an understanding of “God” as we understood him. Whatever happened with how I understand him. A.A. is extremely Co-dependent. Everyone’s “recovery” is about those coffee slurping meetings where people are looking for validation from one another.
August 27th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
In order for something to be classified as a disease it has to be able to be identified in a corpse. The Standard Pathalogical Index does not have it listed. There can be symptoms of alcohol abuse” but NO DISEASE!
What was once listed in the Psychiatic Manual as such was changed…
We live in a world that once you label someone a victim…nothing bad can be said about them. AA started out with good intent and over the years has become a victim’s paradise and professional “ALIBI” club…they promote relapse.
The government is pissing away millions looking for genetic cause and the cause is “self disrespect…” Happy people do not try and go to the land of oz…or are they in constant need to escape. It is a self esteem issue.
The revolving door has been running a long time…look at the stats for how many go back to treatment for 2,3,4 or more times. It is simply a “cash cow.”
I have never met a person who is defective or powerless…but if I go around people who tell me that as do the directions…I would probably have a good chance of believing it.
The people who recover from themselves do so for one reason…”THEY WANT TO.” For those who want to play the GOD card…”free will makes evil possible.”
The truth kills the diehards Joel…just keep grinding. f it helps one person turn their life around rather than them feeling like a failure…then you have had success.
(for the literary spelling pro’s if I made any errors…I’m not perfect so you may want to try and give yourself the same opportunity).
August 27th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Alex,
Thank you for the great comment & support!
August 28th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
“Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.” MT
September 3rd, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Thanks so much, it is comforting to know that there are other people who see AA for what it really is.
September 3rd, 2009 at 6:04 pm
P.S. anyone interested in other articles like this should go to http://www.orange-papers.org there are many many many more articles on the subject.
September 16th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
I’m a alcoholic and was president for 2 terms, my vice president was drunk when he shot someone hunting.
October 10th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Hey Brother,
I really enjoyed your article. I am a member of AA and have three years of soberity. I don’t agree with alot of what you say, however there are somethings i do agree with. To start, You say about the fourth step “Except for the most basic moral check: Recognizing ones owns action and taking ownership of them,” is not completely accurate. When one takes that step they are taking a look at their actions committed during their active alcoholism, and take responsibilty for their actions. They use the information they get to go and complete their 9th step, which asks us to make amends for the harmed, whatever they may ask of us. I know of people in the program who made amends for committing crimes such as assualt, and rape, and as a result they have turned themselves in to the authroities to serve prison time for what they have done. They take responsibility.
October 11th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
You gotta luv em. Thank God they don’t have control over the world or we would be back in the dark ages. AA is a sub-culture of the inquisition and dark ages. They always have to take the most radical, dramatic example to prove a point. Again, the alcohol is blamed for the behavior and acts and not the person. “It was during their active alcoholism” when they committed the crime. I remember a story about a drunkin horse thief that got sober, but he was still a horse thief. Excuses be gone. AA is full of excuses. Let’s applaude the rapist now that they’ve turned them self in.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:30 pm
It is easy to throw around a strong term like “coward” when one hides behind an IP address. You should not have used such inflammatory terms if your goal was just to make a point. It’s too bad because there is some truth to what you say. Alcoholism is a paradox, and those trying to lable this “condition” are missing the point. I myself was an alcoholic who stopped through therapy and AA. I am not religious, but I do believe there is some thing more in this life than just chance and probabilities. I attend AA meetings because I have made friends in them who have gone through the same ordeal. That is our bond. Not religion.
I believe the “alcoholism as a disease” debate stems from the difficulty of the alcoholic to deal with the guilt society tries to lay on alcoholics for being weak and powerless. If I had not found a way to believe alcoholism was a disease, and therefore not my fault, I would probably still be drinking. When one suffers from such an overbearing addiction such as alcoholism, one is too weak, physically and psychologically to have any willpower to quit drinking. Taking away the weight of the guilt can give one enough strength and hope to finally quit for good.
So what I’m saying is, after 12 years of sobriety, I don’t care what alcoholism is. But I do care about a fellowship of people that quietly meet together to share on common experiences, and give each other support to become better human beings.
On the other hand, I also believe AA is NOT enough. As you mentionned, drinking is only part of the problem of an alcoholic. Why one started drinking in the first place and conditions that may have developped during the drinking are reasons why one should consider therapy and possible medication.
So my answer to your text is: believing alcoholism is a disease worked for me, it saved my life, as it can save the life of others.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Pat,
I do not hide behind an IP address. My name an contact info are freely available on my site.Â
Joel Gross
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:14 am
Nevertheless, you are throwing around the term “coward” unfairly. Your info might be available but those comments were made online, in a space where you are protected from the immediate emotional response such comments might elicit. Don’t use terms like that. They hurt people and they don’t contribute to a constructive approach for debating the issue.
October 25th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Hi,
Just to give you my perspective as an atheist non-drinker. I found AA provided a good jump start (though I also did rehab), and some of the steps do make a lot of sense and I don’t agree that they’re about denying responsibility or “praying”. An addict will never ever quit unless they acknowledge they have lost control over their substance of choice. Having control implies they could have the odd pint and not end up addicted again. In those early days of recovery AA does provide a good place to go where you won’t get judged, and in those early days of recovery addicts know what arseholes they have been so don’t begrudge a little bit of psychological healing. Now some may want these people to feel bad, but there is a difference between concern about your actions and crushing self flagellation. The question of the “higher power” needn’t be anything to do with God. It made sense to me that I could not within myself stop boozing (no I don’t believe the disease theory, but there is an awful lot of rewiring that goes on with chemicals), I had tried and failed. So my higher power was just other people, physicians and others in the groups. I see what you’re saying about willpower, and yes at the beginning you make the decisions, but at the end it is not that easy.
So I think there is a lot in AA that can help people. If you find the right group. But there is a flip side. Some members are religious nutters. Ignore them. Some preach 90 meetings in 90 days. Some say AA is the only way. Rubbish, it is a way though. The worst thing is that removing alcohol from your life creates a hole. Now to me that was a great opportunity to fill it with good things, others fill it too much with AA. In that respects I can see where the cult argument comes from. I go rarely now, but will still go. It keeps topped up in my mind what a dick you become when you’re an alcoholic.
Take what works from AA and ignore what doesn’t, find your own way.
October 30th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Tradition or Truth?
The question is: “Is all tradition truth?” Traditional processes and programs have been having their way for many years with little to no change. For the sake of this space I am specifically speaking of those who are into “self abuse.” COMMONLY CALLED “alcoholic, addict, and all the cutesy names” that exist. Let’s call them what they are in group form…”alibi clubs.”
People exercise poor choice and develop bad habits (maybe in some cases the other way around) and then add the “victim mentality.” Society has made it fashionable to go to treatment especially if you are a “self abuser.” Labels do protect victims.
In realty people are in “pain” for every reason and excuse known to mankind. They are not ” in happy” or they would not be disrespecting themselves. They turn to an industry for help who endorses a program of tradition…with little truth. An industry who’s tradition is focused on 28 to 180 days and “you will never be cured.” “Your illness is a lifetime illness.” Your addiction is by your own doing…which by the way, is NOT classified as a disease in the Standard Pathological Textbooks. Addiction is not listed in the American Psychiatric Association Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV (DSM IV). What was once listed as alcoholism is now referred to as alcohol dependence and abuse…under substance related disorders.
ALTERNATIVE:
Noun 1. A choice between two or more possibilities.
2. One of the things to be chosen.
Adjective 1. Allowing or necessitating a choice.
2. Existing outside conventional institutions or systems.
Most of the people that I have had the opportunity to talk with in the “true alternative sense” openly admit that their program “is not” for everyone. Isn’t that truly a CHOICE?
Depending on who’s report you read the Guru (AA) has around a 5 to 7% success rate. (That does show what the courts think of people who are ordered there). Medical Facilities (also depending on who’s numbers you read) has an 18 to 22% success rate…while our tax dollars are looking for genetic reasons (like anyone needs additional excuses to avid responsibility).
There are facilities who claim 100% success and some who proclaim to be the best rated program. (However, when asked who did the rating no response ws issued).
People collectively are still the most powerful force in the world. They have a right to demand the “best results possible” if they are willing to make a commitment to themselves. Is that where the problem lies? In accepting responsibilty we are being truthful and seeking help from traditional means and methods only to be disappointed…then turn to an alternative approach (many which are disguised but are really modified, same old garbage) to get the same results.
There are altrnative programs that qualify “truthfully” as such based on our opening definition. They are succesful because, people who come to them are seeking a common bond…”truth.” No one is “defective” but we are all different and do not belong behind “just door a, b, or c.”
Alternatives give us “choice, optimism, self respect and restore self esteem.”
Life could not have been designed to give people a “label” like one word can describe a person. There are plenty who have no want, need or desire to be happy, they like the initial attention that the victim mentality affords them. When life looses meaning and purpose…people start abusing themselves to turn off the pain. Take the next step for yourself…and restore the respect you deserve and stop buying into the “garbage.”
November 16th, 2009 at 8:43 am
Without agreeing or disagreeing with this opinion article, this is not a scientific article. One of the fundamental prerequisites for a scientific article is that you cite your sources. There is not a single citation in this opinion article. I am disappointed by the commentators with a science or medical background that have failed to mention this fact.
December 20th, 2009 at 11:15 am
I left the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous 7 months ago and it was the best thing I ever did.
I went to AA back in 2008 of January and I found no support or love just abuse,contempt,lots of racism,prejudice,intolerance especially for african americans (I’m Biracial)
One thing thats a problem IS THIRTEEN Stepping. And lesbian women aren’t safe from this tactic in AA either.
Your not protected or even warned about being the sick object of someones affection either its even encouraged!
The last meeting I attended was back in May 09 this year.
I am fairly attractive and one particular woman who I later realized was lesbian kept eyeing me like I was the best looking piece of meat on the platter.
She kept trying to get me to share a book (the AA big book) with her. Kept trying to force herself on me when I was clearly not interested nor that is not the reason I was going to the meetings.
I had had enough when after I was sharing at one meeting this woman made a last ditch desperate attempt to try at thirteen stepping me by running over to me crying,she stuck part of herself inside the window of my mothers car and she doesn’t know me! the whole scene disgusted me, and saying that I could call her if I needed to talk.
Problem was I knew she wanted more than to “just talk”.
It was no secret that she was attracted to me. See in AA there seems to be an unwritten type of secrecy around encouraging members with some years of sobriety to “hook up” of course AA’ers don’t tell you this its just secretly encouraged.
Something I find reprehensible & abominable!
Another problem inappropriate behavior.
I walked in on a pre meeting meaning that the other cult members hadn’t arrived I was early only to find the secretary and some woman making out in the church basement coat room.
No one bothered to say anything.
It was treated just like “oh well”
I’m still seeking some support for the 18 months of hell in AA.
I need someone to talk to. But who?
Everywhere I turn is pro AA
Can anyone suggest a good group to talk to face to face.
Thanks
March 2nd, 2010 at 8:15 am
to who ever you are i stated drinking at age 10 and and i must say you have no idea whatsoever the concept of aa or a higher power i was introduced to aa in 1972 and did not stay sober but evertime i went to aa i DID STAY SOBER!!!!!!!!!! only when i got away from our concepts and beliefs did i not.. it seems obvious to me that you have no idea what alcoholism is maybe you should do a little more research because when i drink or take a drug there is no such thing as WILL POWER untill i end up in jail phch ward or the hopital and turn things over to A GOD of my understanding do things get better..i havent had a drink or drug for awhile now and its not because of a cult its because of the principle of alcoholics anoymous which are also the same principle this nation was founded on ONE NATION UNDER GOD not some nut like you
March 19th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
As a consequence of attending 4 meetings, two of them with new young female alcoholic and another with a female recovering “user” presumably drugs of some kind, I have elected to blow the whistle on A.A. for its deliberate neglect to act upon the medical needs of such persons. Both individuals are in dire need of medical help by a physician, not groups who are stuck on their past.
I made this report that Alcoholics Anonymous has many problems that the State of California Drug and Alcohol Department should become aware.
1) AA does nothing to direct “new members” to appropriate medical personnel or organizations to address their possible withdrawal symptoms if the member is going to go “cold turkey.” In just 4 visits to varied A.A. meetings in the Santa Clara County, I discovered two women, in desperate need of medical attention due to their abuse of alcohol or drugs or both.
2) AA does not provide any medical information whatsoever about the biological facts concerning alcohol abuse. Thus, it cultivates rationalizations such as “I have an allergy to alcohol” to account for their long time belief that an allergy caused them to drink uncontrollably. There is no such allergic condition, where a human body produces chemicals specific to fight an allergy.
3) AA is an evangelistic society, not a neutral non-sectarian society. It evangelizes God as an alcoholics redeemer and does not question the idea of a God. It pushes a concept that God is responsible for their recovery, not the individual. For A.A. it is a SUPREME BEING, a higher power, a God, that wants them to do abstain from alcohol consumption, and will give them GRACE, a blessing to do so. God wants this or that for them.
Instead of supporting members for their reality, they read and recant their old drinking traumas. They compound and relive their past lives as drinkers rather than staying away from trauma.
4) AA does nothing to promote physical health and well being. Its members are addicts of all kinds, tobacco’s many toxins including the most addictive substance, nicotine, foods, such as sugars, and possibly cannabis, now that allegedly it is legal. Many attendees, at the meetings are disheveled, unshaven, obese in many cases, not all, bruised and some display the signs of bulimia (blackened nail of the third right hand middle finger) – in conjunction with being underweight.
In conclusion, Family Law, Criminal Drug Diversion and Traffic Criminal Courts that concern itself with DUI offenders are mistaken and ill advised to order offenders into AA as part of the jail diversion program. They are mistaken to believe that Alcoholics Anonymous will provide the necessary group support which alcohol and drug abusers need to examine their motivations for becoming chronic and dependent substance abusers. Most of the drug users I witnessed did not in any way appear to be alcoholic; they offended drugs and in doing so, they were caught by the criminal justice system. That criminal justice system as part punishment, removed their children from them.
It seemed that one woman after the other stood up and addressed the AA group as if speaking to a Judge in Court, pleading that “the program works.” and then more to the issue about hoping to get a job.
Alcoholics Anonymous is not a psychology group; it is a religious group pushing – without tolerance – religious dogma, not ideas or philosophy but intolerance.
At the conclusion of one meeting where I attempted to make contact with a young woman with serious alcohol toxicity symptoms, and advise her to seek a doctor, the other members, female in Palo Alto, an affluent group, obstructed me from doing so.
A “member” attacked me verbally for stating that I was a Buddhist, with years of training, and that Buddhists do not believe in God, a god or any gods. I stated a refrain of a Buddhist Teacher who was hired by George Lucas in the Stars Wars Trilogy. The phrase was “the force is with you.” Mr. Lucas changed it and other Tibetan words, to MAY THE FORCE be with you. I make no claim to enlightenment, but I do not want to say the Lords prayer twice in a meeting, when I am not a Christian. Outside after ridiculing me, she told me not to come back.
I called the A.A. NY Office to report the above but they were hostile to me. They refused 1) to identify themselves 2) to listen to me that they as an organization violate the Ralph and Unruh Act which prohibits discrimination based on religion and by hostile acts committed by an AA “member” against a person, me, of another “faith.” The woman who verbally attacked me, stated that I should not come back, and then struck at my face, her raised-middle finger after I stated that this AA group violated the law.
A.A. shields itself as a no organization – organization. It colors itself as a gray quasi organization in order to not regulate, and has evolved into a purely, sectarian, group think organization. It believes that its policies of anonymity immunizes itself against scrutiny, evaluation, change or review by outside agencies that rely upon it as a tool to prevent “relapses” or to enforce alcohol abstinence.
In this regard, I am a whistle blower. That is my role and general function. I am proud to be a Buddhist, it was not easy for me to be a Buddhist, but being Buddhist means, I take responsibility for everything, though others may hurt and injure me intentionally, how I proceed after injury, insult, obstruction, delay, or loss determines my connection to my spirituality.
The relief KEY in Buddhism, that allows the spirit to flow, is the belief that everything is impermanent. all of it, and that you can never separate the bad from the good. Good and bad are continuous.
The other thing Buddhism instructed me about is groups and cults, and that a group is a dangerous thing because it can go along operating with sets of delusions, and without reference to individual’s identities, needs and their perceptions, which in fact conflict.
A group can go to a friendly neutral happy, cheery, cooperative meeting type to a nasty back stabbing, friction and fur flying everywhere, gossip mongers, quickly if rules of conduct are not established.
Buddhists could never become communists, it is not a collective religion, essentially everyone is on their own but it helps to meditate with others just like exercising together.
March 19th, 2010 at 11:02 pm
The belief that “alcoholism” is a dark hole of magnetized addiction that originates in genes is wrong.
The “tendency” towards alcohol abuse and dependency is polygenetic, more than one gene, not just a gene from a Dad or two genes, one from Dad another from Mom.
You know in Europe, drinking is alcoholic. In Germany, men drink at the dinner table in a restaurant, soused from many large – very large glasses of beer – more than a 6 pack, in 2 hours max, while eating and smoking at the table coughing, near their kids. All of Europe drinks daily.
It is cultural. Two glasses a day of wine totaling 13 oz, 4 times a week is defined as maintaining alcoholism if you are a woman.
America just does not know how or processes alcohol differently. In Japan, though, workers start work intoxicated and barely are able to stand, because they drank the entire night before together.
April 13th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Who cares how people become sober as long as they do. If only a few are successful with AA that is a blessing (can I say that) for them. I think there seems to be alot of anger towards those who do not follow a more structured so called scientific approach to becoming sober. I think different strokes for different folks would work well here. May be the author should lighten up a little.
May 19th, 2010 at 5:46 pm
AA is not a religious affiliation. It becomes a spiritual way to deal with life which is completely different from what an alcoholic in active addiction is used to living. The old way of thinking and acting didn’t work so to get sober and stay that way you must find a new way to think and act. When we are “out there” we tend to think that we are invinsible, almost God-like. If we are blessed enough to find AA we find out that yes, there is a God, and WE are NOT IT. As far as taking responsibility for our actions go, we absolutely do! Thats why we do a fourth step which is designed for us to find our part in how we hurt others and why we drank. Then it step five we tell another person all the things that WE did wrong.We ask for God to remove our shortcomings because if we don’t change the way we think and behave we are headed for relapse.In step eight we make amends to everyone that we hurt while drinking. We continue to make amends by not drinking again a day at a time.And in step twelve we carry the message of how we got sober to others and hope that they get it. I didn’t go through each and every step. I don’t think it would matter anyway. Alcohol is only a SYMPTOM of what is really wrong with an alcoholic. I know that when I began to drink alcoholically, I did it because I became obsessed with the confidence that alcohol gave me. I had never experienced confidence before. Now thanks to my higher power and AA, I have learned through the twelve steps that I can live and wonderful life sober.I share my experience with others because I know what it’s like for that shit to have you under it’s thumb. There are a lot of things that I don’t understand, but I try to keep an open mind. If you are not an alcoholic, if you have never experienced the phenomenon of craving, or the addict voice that tells you, “this time will be different. You can have one,” only to find yourself lying in an alley beat-up with no recollection of it, please don’t judge. Scientist can’t even explain it, so what the hell could you possibly know? You will be in my prayers.
July 18th, 2010 at 9:09 am
The view of AA as an ‘alibi club’ is clever, and anyone with an aversion to AA and it’s message would be tempted to see it in that light. My own experiences with AA don’t support that view, I don’t see a cult of victimhood there, I see people courageously facing up to and taking ownership of the terrible things they’ve done. If some AAs have misunderstood the concepts of powerless and unmanageablity and taken refuge behind their faulty reasoning, that doesn’t negate or devalue the message when it’s applied correctly.
The bad that we have done to ourselves and others during our drinking ‘careers’ are completed things. We can’t change anything about them, they happened, and all we can do now is learn to live with them. We do that by facing up to them, accepting the consequences, and making amends as best as we can, and then we MOVE ON. What really offends people, whether this is about AA, or treatment, or pschoanalysis, is the idea that a rapist or a murderer or whoever, can reach a place in their life and in their thought processes where they have accepted what they’ve done and sought to forgive themselves for it. We naturally tend to want bad people to suffer terribly for their wrongs until the ends of their lives.
Of course, in AA, like in society generally, most of us aren’t rapists and murderers. The majority of us are/were self centred, irresponsible and uncaring people, and this is underlying psychological condition which the AA program treats, and of which our drinking is the most obvious and problematic symptom.
And dude, seriously, to raise the spectre of sexual predation in our little ‘cult’ is specious in the extreme. Sexual exploitation is a human nature problem, not an AA problem, and it happens wherever human beings gather and organize, whether that organization is a worldwide church or a local Rotary club. You compromise your credibility when you include it, your argument takes on a shrillness and tends towards irrelevance. Unfortunately, some who would benefit from what AA has to say to them will be deterred by the insinuations you make.
So, go, and sin no more ! God bless, and the best of luck with whatever it is you’re trying to accomplish here.