Are You A Fundamentalist Christian?
If any of the following criteria fit you, you probably are a hardcore fundamentalist Christian.
-You think the thousands of other gods claimed by other religions are completely ridiculous, but you feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.
-You feel dehumanized when scientists say that people evolved from other forms of life, but the Bible’s claim that we were created from dirt doesn’t affect you.
-People who believe in multiple gods make you giggle, but you have no problem believing in a Triune god. 100% Man, 100% God, 100% Holy Spirit! You also insist that basic math must be incorrect.
-Muslim atrocities enrage you, but when you read about God’s Biblical genocides or how he slaughtered all the infants in Egypt or ordered the elimination of every living creature (men, women, children, animals and even trees!) you don’t blink an eye.
-When you hear about Greek gods that slept with women or Hindu beliefs that deify humans, you laugh your butt off. However, you have no trouble believing that the “Holy Spirit” impregnated Mary who gave birth to a 100% man, 100% god combo who was killed, came back to life and then flew away into the sky.
-You spend your life hunting for tiny loopholes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (a few billion years) and of the universe, but once again you don’t think twice about believing dates from ancient tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing the Earth is no older than their geneaologies.
-Your knowledge of the Bible, church history and Christianity is significantly smaller than that of many atheists and agnostics… but still you consider yourself a Christian.
-A .01% success rate when it comes to answered prayers is “proof” of God’s existence and shows that prayer works, but the remaining 99.99% failure rate is “God’s Will”.
-Modern science, history, geology, biology, philosophy, theology and physics have failed to convince you that God doesn’t exist, but some moron rolling on the floor babbling in another language is all the evidence you need to prove Christianity.
-You believe that Christianity is a tolerant and loving religion, but you also believe that the entire population of the planet and everyone who has ever been born who doesn’t share your specific beliefs will spend eternity in an infinite amount of pain in hell.
Hmmm… Am I being a little harsh?
Fundamentalist Christians have done some good in this world, like.. umm… I’ll let you try to fill in the blanks.
Cascade Christian High School (CCHS), Puyallup WA is AWFUL!...
Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints...
Christianity Demotivational Poster...
“Morally Corrupt”...
Message from Josh… Never been as proud of one of my bros...
Mormons- What do they believe?...
Atheist Bumper Stickers...
Cat’s Cradle and Memorial Day...
The Powerful Male Sex Drive...
The Joel Osteen Comedy Show...
Lack of Direction...
Joel Osteen: Megachurch Televangelist Pastor without Christ?! SCANDAL!...
Like my cheesy pic? :)
January 29th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Most charities are funded predominantly by individuals who would term themselves religious (not necessarily Christian, but since that is the primary one claimed by Americans…). Most major pacifistic and human rights movements receive strong support from the religious community. The Catholic Church for instance does quite a bit of work protecting, sheltering, providing for, and raising the publicity of various human rights disasters. So we do some good.
Most Christian societies would either currently, or in the past, have played an integral role in the economic and political development of the world. A lot of your earlier atheistic quotes are a little duplicitous. Guys like Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and even Plato put out quite a few quotes touting the existence of God. And you don’t hate on them.
Secondarily you have to be careful to separate the actions of man from the actions of God. Saying child molestation is a fruit of religion is a pretty naive thing. Many of the wars attributed to Christianity were land grabs by governments and monarchies attempting to seize power, wealth, and a place in history. If anything the religion was abused rather than at fault.
Ultimately the fact of the matter is that you don’t know one way or another. You can argue to a certain point that science defies the existence of a god or divine being in many forms but you can’t prove that he doesn’t exist. And just like many scientific theories, you can’t prove that this is how things happened. What you are left with is a question mark. Rather than stating things like you know them to be true, accept that all you have is a carefully strung line of theories.
Saying you don’t believe in any god or divinity is admitting that you aren’t willing to accept that you can’t know everything. Agnosticism is a much better approach to life, because it allows for you to make the statement that you know what it is that you don’t know. And some old guy in a toga a long time ago thought that the man who knew what the limitations of his knowledge were, was the wisest man.
Hate on the negative aspects of Christianity if you want. But you still don’t know where it all began or how it all will end.
Maybe next week you could have a blog post on how evil capitalism is. There are plenty of starving children in Africa and depleted rain forests in Brazil that are eager to see their malefactor pointed out.
January 29th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
In your entire disagreement here and on your website, you have not once tried to defend religion with logic, philosophy or science. All you do is try to make the point that I should be Agnostic. I am an agnostic because I’m not certain what the truth is, but I AM certain what the truth is NOT. The truth according to the laws of intelligence (logic, philosophy and science) conclusively proves that the Christianity put forth by the Bible, the Judaism put forth by the Torah and the Islam put forth by the Koran CANNOT be true. If I chose to ignore the important laws of intelligence, I would lose myself in the wishy washiness of relativism. My question to you is why do you believe what you believe? From everything you’ve written so far, I actually think you yourself are an agnostic, just like me. Why do you bother going to church?
January 29th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
I do appreciate your awesome responses on my blog, Jordan. Keep sharing your thoughts here, I love to have a good discussion. Also, anyone else interested should feel free to jump in as well.
January 29th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
I disagree that Christianity as put forth by the Bible has been conclusively proven to be fictitious by logic, philosophy, or science. Specific interpretations of it have been- but like most things that involve morality, religion, or the “soul”.
There aren’t tests or litmus that can be used to simply say its false. You can argue against one interpretation of Scripture (a completely literal one is the easiest) but you can’t make it false.
My reading of the Bible and evaluation of its intent and purpose, as well as my personal experience, lead me to believe that it IS true and the most logical of the religions that I have seen or experienced. But I refuse to simply accept it without entertaining an evaluation of it perpetually. Which is why the questions or perceptions that I have about it.
I have a “quotation” post to follow on my blog with some interesting comments on why I can embrace agnosticism more readily then atheism. Your ease of accepting of the utter untruth of the Bible seems to me to be quick and dismissive. A questioning mind is a living one.
January 29th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
The Bible is either true or it isn’t. The Bible isn’t half true and half false. The Bible itself even says you take everything or you take nothing, but if you are lukewarm “God will spit you out”. Be careful on coming up with strange esoteric “readings” and “interpretations” of the Bible… you are treading on dangerously heretical grounds.
Also, I am not a true atheist. I am agnostic because I acknowledge that there could be a superior being, albeit not the Biblical one. I also cannont disprove the existence of Santa Claus, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Satan, Zeus, the Sun God, Neo, Michael Jackson, Cartman or any of the other plethora of fictional characters. That does not mean that I will believe in all of them until each and every one has been disproven. Bring me any form of logically valid proof and I will believe. If you say “the Bible says so”, “Jesse Jackson saw God” or anything else that is just somebody making an assertion without evidence, I will be very skeptical.
The Catholic Church and other religious organizations may do some good deeds. My question to you is where do they get the money that funds these deeds? Oh that’s right, poor and gullible people. How much money do the priests, pastors and other men of the cloth take off the top for their own entertainment? Hmmm…. Doesn’t seem to be so good anymore. Have you ever wondered how those thousands of Catholic churches were built? How the palatial Vatican was funded? Something tells me that vulnerable, desperate people were taken advantage of once again. Now their good deeds sound much more like evil deeds meant to hide their true intentions to me.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
If you look at most general pastors they make well less then you. Very few actually would qualify as mega pastors and quite a few actually subsidize their incomes with another job.
In times gone by, certainly the Vatican has had its issues. But much of the Vatican establishment is fairly old and would qualify as historical. Much of their money goes to ministry outreaches and few of the priests and bishops make significant sums of money.
And you can’t cite the number of churches as a fault- they end up being a symbol of hope, security, and peace for a lot of people. That alone gives them an inherent value.
Many religious or mythological persona are easily disproved. You climb Mt. Olympus and you don’t find Zeus. We don’t see a guy in a chariot pull the sun across the sky. Go to the North Pole? No Santa Claus. Michael Jackson does exist though. At least partially in this realm.
The good thing about God is that he doesn’t necessarily deny the reasoning or logic behind science. Much of science’s conflicts come with the idea that it can’t describe every phenomena or prove every theory. And the idea that God has the ability to supersede our understanding of natural law.
The Bible (especially the Old Testament) has shown a fair deal of historical consistency since its recorded beginnings. And reading it in a way where it is theologically consistent doesn’t require some sort of fallacy or partial acceptance of it. Much of the Bible is quite clear and forthright of its intent and reading. It doesn’t necessarily have to be twisted to be trusted.
September 15th, 2008 at 2:41 am
Hi Joel. I found your site through a search on google for Joel Olsteen. I appreciate what you’re doing in trying to expose people like this who use religion to further their own purposes. I started looking through your blog and stumbled upon your post about being a fundamentalist Christian. Even though I am a Christian, and what you may consider a fundamentalist (I believe in the LORD Jesus Christ as my personal saviour), I can understand some of the confusion you feel. Many people who call themselves Christians don’t actually follow God’s word (the Holy Bible) and so they present a false witness to persons such as yourself who may want to know more about Christianity, but feel that what they see acted out is not representative of what the Bible says. I’m going to address some of what you brought up in your post.
1. You said “You think the thousands of other gods claimed by other religions are completely ridiculous, but you feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.”
Actually I don’t think that the thousands of other gods claimed by other religions are completely ridiculous. To Christians, and actually to people living in other countries who serve these gods, they are better known as demons, or fallen angels. There are examples of people possessed with demons in the Bible. Read Matthew 8:28-34 and Matthew 17:14-18 in the Old King James version of the Bible. I don’t feel outraged when someone denies the existence of my God. Jesus didn’t come to earth to force people to believe in Him. He came for those who wanted to believe in Him.
2 You said “You feel dehumanized when scientists say that people evolved from other forms of life, but the Bible’s claim that we were created from dirt doesn’t affect you.”
Scientists can say whatever they want to. That doesn’t make it true. The Bible says “In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Genesis 3:19). Dead people and dead animals, if left to decay, turn into dust.
3. You said “People who believe in multiple gods make you giggle, but you have no problem believing in a Triune god. 100% Man, 100% God, 100% Holy Spirit! You also insist that basic math must be incorrect.”
As I stated earlier, the multiple gods you are talking about are demons. They are not funny, they are real. And yes, I believe what the Bible says about God. I don’t think that the natural mind can understand God fully. The Bible says “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” (I Corinthians 13:12). To me this scripture is saying that those of us who are Christians will not know everything there is to know about God until we meet him. Part of being a Christian is having faith. Even as an agnostic you have faith. Everyone has a measure of faith. What makes us differ is what our faith is based upon. You believe that the planet Pluto exists even though you have never seen it in person and you have never touched it for yourself. You believe it based on what others have told you and shown you. Therefore you have faith that Pluto exists. (and yes, I believe that Pluto exists). Scientists have a measure of faith. When they have faith it is called a hypothesis. Then they set about to prove that their hypothesis is correct. If they can prove it to our satisfaction, it is called fact. A Christian believes that there is one God, and that He has a Son named Jesus, who came to earth to die for the sins of man. A Christian believes that by repenting of those sins, and accepting Jesus Christ as LORD, that he will have eternal life with Jesus. Therefore a Christian has faith in Jesus and in what the Bible says about Jesus. Christianity isn’t something that is designed to be proven like a theorem in geometry. Christianity is based upon faith.
4. You said “Muslim atrocities enrage you, but when you read about God’s Biblical genocides or how he slaughtered all the infants in Egypt or ordered the elimination of every living creature (men, women, children, animals and even trees!) you don’t blink an eye.”
Muslim atrocities are not justified. Muslims are human. Did Muslims create mankind? When God does something, He provides plenty of warning first. The death of the infants in Egypt happened after Pharoah had been warned by God through Moses multiple times, and refused to heed the warning. If you are warned over and over and over of something catastrophic and you don’t heed the warning, who is at fault? Is it you, since you didn’t heed the warning, or is the one who warned you to blame? Who is to blame when a country or group of people is warned repeatedly, and they don’t heed the warning? In the story of Noah, which you are also referring to, God didn’t destroy every living thing. He preserved Noah and his family because “Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.” (Genesis 6:9b). He preserved some of the land animals (creatures on the earth). If you read Genesis 1:10 (Old King James version) you will notice that God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the water Seas. God destroyed animals and man off of the Earth (except for Noah and those with him), He never said He would destroy the creatures in the sea (fish, whales, etc.). Also, He never said anything about destroying trees. If He had destroyed all of the trees then the dove in Genesis 8:11 would not have found an olive leaf to pluck off.
I don’t have time right now to address the other points that you brought up. Not because they are not important, but because it is late and I am not sure you are going to receive what I have already said. If you are interested in hearing more, just let me know.
I want to challenge you to something. You said that no one has proven to you that God really exists, and I said that you have to accept God by faith. You can not fully understand Him with your mind. Read Hebrews 11:1 (Old King James version) for what the Bible says about faith. My challenge to you is if you really want to know if God exists, why don’t you ask Him? Say, “God, if you are really the God that is described in the Bible, and if you really exist, and if you are the only true God, help me to know without a shadow of a doubt that you are real.” Say that in your heart and mean it, and see what happens.
September 15th, 2008 at 10:59 am
BelieverinChrist, Thank you for your well-thought out comment. I would really like to hear your responses to the rest of the post!
A couple of points occurred to me on what you said that I would appreciate you clarifying:
-Do you really believe that the other gods people believe in are demons? Do you have any scriptural basis for this assertion?
-You said that Muslims are people who commit atrocities, but Christian atrocities are performed by God… but don’t the Muslims believe that same thing?
September 17th, 2008 at 7:51 am
No. Muslims believe that their atrocities are performed by Allah. And really, who believes somebody with such a silly name could be real?
September 17th, 2008 at 11:48 am
So do Christians.